How much !!!!!!!!!

[charliec]

Great to see that Artnet are still keeping it real .......................

http://www.artnet.com/auctions/artists/ ... e-portrait


Really ??? !!!!

[jjttdw]

At least it isn't an open edition offset lithograph. Did you look down the page so see what the Ali prints actually sold for? Makes me want to pack up my itoyas and fly to Europe.

[Solar]

Somebody could make a good living buying all the Shep prints on ebay and flying them over to France twice a year.

[Jessica Ravelo]

How do you know someone isn't already doing it?!?!? not me of coarse.

[Fattyramone]

If some of you guys would sell abroad , not charge $60+ postage and turn off the Ebay programme that automatically charges us 20% vat ton the price of the item AND the excessive postage costs that we have no need to pay you might find the prices fetched would increased dramatically for you guys too ....little bit more risk for a lot more potential profit.

[brintoul]

I got ripped off by a guy in France once; Jocelyn Berthier I believe was the gentleman's name.

[Backpackpunk]

If some of you guys would sell abroad , not charge $60+ postage and turn off the Ebay programme that automatically charges us 20% vat ton the price of the item AND the excessive postage costs that we have no need to pay you might find the prices fetched would increased dramatically for you guys too ....little bit more risk for a lot more potential profit.

Part of the problem is that it costs almost $60.00 to ship the print with tracking to the EU, thats a lot of risk to hope that the price of the print increases by $60.00 or more to hope to get a EU bidder that might be willing to pay more. Seems like a lot for risk for little reward.

I've dealt with a few people from France who I know are buying up prints to sell there and they are not spreading the love, in fact the haggle more then anyone else I have dealt with.

I have been paying attention to the France market for a year or so now and I am beginning to wonder how much of it may be smoke and mirrors or just completely fake. I know there are people out there with more money then sense but why pay such extraordinary prices on pieces that are available literally for hundreds less on a daily basis through eBay. Even if you include a high shipping fee and VAT its still much cheaper and more convenient then going through an auction house. It just seems to me that if there was a huge rush for Urban/Street art in France that we would see it spill out to the global market with more French people buying pieces internationally and prices rising at other auction houses and I just haven't seen it. (other then Banksy)

I know the Chinese auction houses had issues for years and still currently do (even EU auction houses when dealing with Chinese bidders) with bidders not following through on their bids, I wonder if that might be happening in France also.

[conartstudio]

If some of you guys would sell abroad , not charge $60+ postage and turn off the Ebay programme that automatically charges us 20% vat ton the price of the item AND the excessive postage costs that we have no need to pay you might find the prices fetched would increased dramatically for you guys too ....little bit more risk for a lot more potential profit.

for a single tube with insurance and tracking it's easily $40-45 and up through USPS… and that's just the cost for shipping and not the cost of packing materials. if you think that's expensive then go and take a look at what shipping costs people in the US who buy from places like POW or Stolen Space.

so yeah, you DO need to pay us for shipping.

as far as VAT is concerned, that is your country's tax, it is not the responsibility of sellers from other countries to either pay the tax you are responsible for or to lie on customs forms so you can avoid paying that tax.

[Fattyramone]

If some of you guys would sell abroad , not charge $60+ postage and turn off the Ebay programme that automatically charges us 20% vat ton the price of the item AND the excessive postage costs that we have no need to pay you might find the prices fetched would increased dramatically for you guys too ....little bit more risk for a lot more potential profit.

for a single tube with insurance and tracking it's easily $40-45 and up through USPS… and that's just the cost for shipping and not the cost of packing materials. if you think that's expensive then go and take a look at what shipping costs people in the US who buy from places like POW or Stolen Space.

so yeah, you DO need to pay us for shipping.

as far as VAT is concerned, that is your country's tax, it is not the responsibility of sellers from other countries to either pay the tax you are responsible for or to lie on customs forms so you can avoid paying that tax.

John , as per usual your talking through your arse with presumed authority about something you don't really understand....

Stay cocooned mate .

[Jessica Ravelo]

This is why i ship to the US only. hmmmm.....

[Fattyramone]

If some of you guys would sell abroad , not charge $60+ postage and turn off the Ebay programme that automatically charges us 20% vat ton the price of the item AND the excessive postage costs that we have no need to pay you might find the prices fetched would increased dramatically for you guys too ....little bit more risk for a lot more potential profit.

Part of the problem is that it costs almost $60.00 to ship the print with tracking to the EU, thats a lot of risk to hope that the price of the print increases by $60.00 or more to hope to get a EU bidder that might be willing to pay more. Seems like a lot for risk for little reward.

I've dealt with a few people from France who I know are buying up prints to sell there and they are not spreading the love, in fact the haggle more then anyone else I have dealt with.

I have been paying attention to the France market for a year or so now and I am beginning to wonder how much of it may be smoke and mirrors or just completely fake. I know there are people out there with more money then sense but why pay such extraordinary prices on pieces that are available literally for hundreds less on a daily basis through eBay. Even if you include a high shipping fee and VAT its still much cheaper and more convenient then going through an auction house. It just seems to me that if there was a huge rush for Urban/Street art in France that we would see it spill out to the global market with more French people buying pieces internationally and prices rising at other auction houses and I just haven't seen it. (other then Banksy)

I know the Chinese auction houses had issues for years and still currently do (even EU auction houses when dealing with Chinese bidders) with bidders not following through on their bids, I wonder if that might be happening in France also.

Thankfully a more reasoned and insightful reply than John-conarts paranoid ramblings....

What does seem to be a huge problem is that there seems to be a multitude of different options /ways /costs that you guys can send stuff and still be insured , and boy do you as a nation like your insurance!

What I'm trying to ask is that do you REALLY need to go all belts and braces on insurance for what is essentially a $50 item? ....even a $100-$150 item?...where's your business acumen in feeling you need to charge a potential customer $110 ($50 & $60 postage)for a lousy $50 sale? ...$500 maybe ..but $50?...really?...

it could be sent for $15 if you were to take that chance

People are ordinarily very honest and the odd rip off tale are generally speaking very low , just amplified on forums by Chinese whispers and half tales , few people are genuinely out to get ya.

I'm a 5,600+ Ebay feedback seller (and I haven't really sold anything in the last 7 years since I took over a pub) and I can honestly say in all my dealings buying and selling I've been "had" maybe 3 , maybe 4 times....a minuscule amount in percentage terms.

I was a vinyl record dealer and I knew that a good amount of my stuff was destined to be sold abroad , ....America , Korea , Japan were my main markets as although "rare" to foreigners what I was selling was not quite so "rare" in my own home market of the UK and I knew that I had to keep my stuff looking attractive to buyers I needed to keep my postage costs down to a minimum and bore the brunt of any losses myself as a cost of doing business overseas.....my "losses" were very few indeed.

In doing so I had countless sales in the £50-£60 region that if I had alienated foreign markets would have only bought me sales of £10-£20 from customers here in the UK.....it's not rocket science really

[Gigantico]

If some of you guys would sell abroad , not charge $60+ postage and turn off the Ebay programme that automatically charges us 20% vat ton the price of the item AND the excessive postage costs that we have no need to pay you might find the prices fetched would increased dramatically for you guys too ....little bit more risk for a lot more potential profit.

for a single tube with insurance and tracking it's easily $40-45 and up through USPS… and that's just the cost for shipping and not the cost of packing materials. if you think that's expensive then go and take a look at what shipping costs people in the US who buy from places like POW or Stolen Space.

so yeah, you DO need to pay us for shipping.

as far as VAT is concerned, that is your country's tax, it is not the responsibility of sellers from other countries to either pay the tax you are responsible for or to lie on customs forms so you can avoid paying that tax.

John , as per usual your talking through your arse with presumed authority about something you don't really understand....

Stay cocooned mate .

[summoner]

Everytime I send Fatty a tube I am all like frankfurter it and just send it first class, no insurance and barely taped together...

[Fattyramone]

You've been a good ol' boy to me Summoner ...as well as a few others on here too ...thanks lads , you know who you are !

To be fair to the discussion though I've always asked you to just send them via your "normal" mail and assumed the risk myself , and maybe sometime in the future one will get lost or damaged but I weigh up the cost of the "maybe" future loss of a $100-$150 poster against the cost that I've already saved in NOT wanting it sent with all belts and braces insurance and I'm already quids in. ....many times over.

Only this week I purchased a $300 print from America because the postage was reasonable and they didn't use the dreaded Ebay overseas posting scheme ...so the seller gets a bit more in his pocket because of my overseas bid and I've also bought another $300 print from him too.

That's $600 he's got from me that he wouldn't have got otherwise.

Also , only an hour ago today I bought myself an Obey Smokey Robinson print and an Obey Woody Guthrie print from their sites ...postage costs $20 and $30 respectively ...



Again , if they had been $60 apiece postage then I wouldn't have bothered , I would still have $250 in my pocket and they would still have paper gathering dust on their shelves......a small portion of British wealth is now in the hands of America to spend in YOUR economy.

Let's not forget this discussion / argument started when the OP of this thread asked about the prices (fairly common) Obey prints fetch in France and all I did was chime in a few ideas of how some of you guys could get a few more dollars if you'd only get over this extreme paranoia that everybody is out to shaft you everytime.....insurance brokers thrive on worriers

Yes , once in a blue moon it may happen and you "may" get shafted but the extra monies you would make before that happens would more than cover that 10 times over.

Think global , there's a lot of money to be made out there in the big wide world , it's here to stay now and it isn't going to go away