Official Anticipation: 2nd Amendment Solutions

[QKocur]

Those statistics don't really support your argument. In DC it took over 10 years after passing for violence to increase, and it had already been dropping well before the law was knocked down. In Chicago it took 7. In Texas it was dropping well before the right to carry was passed and coincides with the national trend. Only Florida may support your argument and that also coincides with the National trend. The last graph is accidental deaths, pull up murder.

[shawndoc]

I'm going to argue that the gun control laws have little to do with crime rate. You'll notice in Texas & DC crime was already on a downwards trend, and I'd guess that the general decrease in violent crime experienced by the whole country closely mirrors Florida.

Also both Chicago and DC have the crime rates staying flat or going slightly down for the first decade after the hand gun ban.

I'm not arguing for "no effect", but I think a combination of other factors plays a much more significant role. And I'm saying this as someone who owns a copy of John Lott's book.

[Mira263]

The last graph is accidental deaths, pull up murder.

What do you think the first 3 are?

[synecdoche]

Since we shifted to gun control: I think states should have the ultimate say in what restrictions are allowed on guns based on a lower rational basis standard. I realize this flies in the face of the recent Supreme Court holding in Heller, but I agree with the dissent that there is no absolute right to handguns derived from the 2nd amendment. So to me it seems appropriate to:
1) overturn heller (come on Sotomayor) and allow states their 10th amendment power
2) let states decide the level of government control and access for guns
3) If gun control affects citizens, then let citizens live in the states where the gun control suits their needs.


2 cents.

[QKocur]

The last graph is accidental deaths, pull up murder.

What do you think the first 3 are?

I'm talking about the same context as that last graph, comparing different sources of purposeful death.

1) overturn heller (come on Sotomayor) and allow states their 10th amendment power
2) let states decide the level of government control and access for guns
3) If gun control affects citizens, then let citizens live in the states where the gun control suits their needs.

I agree with that in theory, but in order for that to be successful state to state you'd need a sort of interstate customs and that would never fly.

[synecdoche]

The last graph is accidental deaths, pull up murder.

What do you think the first 3 are?

I'm talking about the same context as that last graph, comparing different sources of purposeful death.

1) overturn heller (come on Sotomayor) and allow states their 10th amendment power
2) let states decide the level of government control and access for guns
3) If gun control affects citizens, then let citizens live in the states where the gun control suits their needs.

I agree with that in theory, but in order for that to be successful state to state you'd need a sort of interstate customs and that would never fly.

Why would you need interstate customs? Currently, 18 USC Sec 926A governs transportation of firearms and it is legal if unloaded, broken down and secured from driver. Still, states can further limit this federal power by making certain guns illegal and gun owners are charged with this notice. For example, you can't own a fully automatic weapon in California (law enforcement and permit exceptions excluded) so someone from Nevada where you can, should know this. If they get pulled over, tough. The same would be true of medical marijuana or any other state restricted activity. If you want to smoke pot and carry unloaded handguns, you can live in cali. If you want to gamble and fire fully automatic rifles, then live in Nevada.

Now I realize that gambling and smoking pot aren't literal freedoms or enumerated rights in the constitution, but all freedoms can be regulated, so why not let the states, who are closer to the population, govern these freedoms so long as they don't impede federal supremacy/judicially carved supremacies.

[QKocur]

I'm just sayin', it already doesn't work for mexico/US where there are customs. It becomes too easy to smuggle in weapons which would undermine a states ability to regulate.

[synecdoche]

I'm just sayin', it already doesn't work for mexico/US where there are customs. It becomes too easy to smuggle in weapons which would undermine a states ability to regulate.

FWIW, I am just defending a point and by no means think it's the solution or that your input is invalid. I'm just stretching it out for the sake of conversation.

I agree that it isn't working with Mexico, but that border is different for a few reasons. First, we're demanding drugs because we make/have less here, and they're demanding guns because a) the public can't own them, and b) we have a sh1t ton here. Secondly, a total ban on firearms hasn't worked that well for Mexico (you can actually read about TJ police using sling shots to combat cartels because they had their weapons taken away).

So, if we transfer that to state issues, then yes I could see your point that some states would have a black market appear to acquire illegal guns, but that already exists. Presumably, there are a lot of people in Cali who procure automatic weapons illegally. Even more so, if you took all guns away, then the demand mirrors Mexico and the market in fact increases.

At the end of the day, my point is that I think the states would be in a much better place to restrict and regulate arms than federal laws and federal agents. If a state was acting out of line with federal laws, then of course the branches could exercise their muscles in the form laws, rulings, and agency action.

[danklax5]

FROM FB.......

2nd Amendment Solutions
by Obey Giant on Monday, January 17, 2011 at 2:30pm
There were a few alternative tag lines for this poster including:

WHY DO I NEED A GUN?… TO PROTECT MYSELF FROM THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TAKE MY GUNS AWAY!

WHAT DO YOU MEAN AMERICANS WON’T ADOPT THE METRIC SYSTEM?… WE USE 9MM’S ALL THE TIME!

I began this print before the recent shootings in Arizona inspired by Nevada Tea Party nut job Sharron Angle’s comment that “if congress keeps going this way, people are looking for 2nd Amendment remedies”

The 2nd Amendment reads:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

It was adopted in 1791 shortly after the revolutionary war in which the colonies had freed themselves from an English monarchy that gave the colonies no representation. The wisdom of the 2nd Amendment was to ensure that a state militia could combat dictatorial oppression. I would assert that putting easily concealed handguns in the hands of a large portion of the civilian population was probably not what the founding fathers had in mind.

My concern over violent rhetoric in politics and the very easy access to guns seems reasonably well founded. I’m not blaming violent rhetoric for the shootings committed by a mentally ill man, but it can’t help. Inciting hostility is just uncivilized and irresponsible. I’m perplexed by America’s love of hand guns. I grew up in South Carolina hunting with my dad and we always had shotguns in the house. My dad put a framed piece in my room that said “A wise hunter once said: all the Pheasants ever bred won’t repay for one man dead”. I was taught to honor and value human life. Whatever your feelings are about hunting, you can’t easily conceal a shotgun, but you can use it to defend your home. Hand guns are too easy to misuse. A lot of people claim to own hand guns for self-defense, but check out the statistics below. Hand guns lead to intentional or unintentional misuse far more often than they are used for justifiable, self-defense related homicides. Even southern boys Lynyrd Skynyrd seem to get it!

Check out these lyrics from Saturday Night Special:

Big Jim’s been drinkin’ whiskey
And playing poker on a losin’ night
And pretty soon, Big Jim starts a thinkin’
Somebody been cheatin’ and lyin’
So Big Jim commences to fightin’
I wouldn’t tell you no lie
And Big Jim done pull his pistol
Shot his friend right between the eyes

Mr.Saturday night special
Got a barrel that’s blue and cold
Ain’t no good for nothin’
But put a man six feet in a hole

Self Defense

For every time a gun in the home is used in a self-defense homicide, a gun will be used in:
• 1.3 unintentional deaths
• 4.6 criminal homicides
• 37 suicides

In 1997 there were 15,690 homicides.

• Of these, 8,503 were committed with handguns.
• Among handgun homicides, only 193 (2.3 percent) were classified as justifiable homicides by civilians.

For every time in 1997 that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 43 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone.

For more handgun statistics check out http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/hgbanfs.htm

Thanks for caring.
-Shepard

[MUZZY]

seems like a fitting ad for this thread....ha ha

still not sure on the print.

[Mira263]

seems like a fitting ad for this thread....ha ha

still not sure on the print.

Front site is awesome. You get a free Springfield XD in any caliber if you do your concealed carry training with them. If I had the time and money I would go out there for a week

[anodyne13]

I have a problem with the comment Shep made below:

"shootings in Arizona inspired by Nevada Tea Party nut job Sharron Angle’s comment"

To imply that the sick actions of this psycho were set off by some political discussion no matter how "nutty" is missing the point completely. This is about the actions of a sick sociopath, and if it wasn't Sharron Angle, it would have been somebody else. Most likely the only thing that might ave prevented this tragedy was intervention by his family.

[boerismo]

WHY DO I NEED A GUN?… TO PROTECT MYSELF FROM THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TAKE MY GUNS AWAY!
WHAT DO YOU MEAN AMERICANS WON’T ADOPT THE METRIC SYSTEM?… WE USE 9MM’S ALL THE TIME!

Anyone find these lines corny? and borderline goose bumpily embarrassing?

[rastapunk]

I have a problem with the comment Shep made below:

"shootings in Arizona inspired by Nevada Tea Party nut job Sharron Angle’s comment"

To imply that the sick actions of this psycho were set off by some political discussion no matter how "nutty" is missing the point completely. This is about the actions of a sick sociopath, and if it wasn't Sharron Angle, it would have been somebody else. Most likely the only thing that might ave prevented this tragedy was intervention by his family.

He phrased that a little oddly. He meant the print was inspired by the comment, not the shooting.

[justin]

WHY DO I NEED A GUN?… TO PROTECT MYSELF FROM THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TAKE MY GUNS AWAY!
WHAT DO YOU MEAN AMERICANS WON’T ADOPT THE METRIC SYSTEM?… WE USE 9MM’S ALL THE TIME!

Anyone find these lines corny? and borderline goose bumpily embarrassing?

Corny, but not goosebump worthy.

[boerismo]

WHY DO I NEED A GUN?… TO PROTECT MYSELF FROM THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TAKE MY GUNS AWAY!
WHAT DO YOU MEAN AMERICANS WON’T ADOPT THE METRIC SYSTEM?… WE USE 9MM’S ALL THE TIME!

Anyone find these lines corny? and borderline goose bumpily embarrassing?

Corny, but not goosebump worthy.

haha thats why i said borderline..it's almost there

[halopigg]

someone has already expressed their right to flip on eBay before the print is even released....

[guppy]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Obey-Giant-2nd-Amen ... 3a6272dc6d

Talk about jumping the gun.

[1fasttruck]

Talk about jumping the gun.

[BigBp0057]

Looks like it was done on that crappy paper Jasper Johns was done on. But I like the image, I am going to try for it.

[QKocur]

Looks like it was done on that crappy paper Jasper Johns was done on.

How do you figure?

[SHT!]

i can dig it!
not positive ill pick one up but i like it!

[bigmuls]

Looking forward to getting this one.

[spagucci1]

Looks like it was done on that crappy paper Jasper Johns was done on.

How do you figure?

Yeah BigBp? Have you seen these in person already?

[conartstudio]

Looks like it was done on that crappy paper Jasper Johns was done on. But I like the image, I am going to try for it.

how can you tell what paper it was printed on based on a digital file and not a photo of the actual printed piece?